Gun control vs. gun rights
BLACKSBURG, Va. - Thirty-three people, including the gunman, were killed at a Virginia university Monday in the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history. At least 15 other people were injured, some of them as they leapt to safety from the fourth floor of a classroom building.
Hospitals reported that five of the 15 injured were in stable condition; the conditions of the others were not immediately reported.
I was enjoying my night playing Tetris when Trollop (who is supposed to be studying for her exams tomorrow!!!) DEMANDED I post this. So, forgive me if I sound like an idiot anchorwoman announcing a headline she has no clue what it’s about but, have you guys heard of this??? So sad and tragic; such a useless waste of lives. :(
Made me wonder, gun control vs. gun rights: where do you stand on this issue?
Labels: politics crap
This is a tough one for me (and not only b/c I should be studying instead of procrastinating!). On one hand I think gun control could save the lives of many innocent people such as these students, on the other hand, as a citizen, I'd like to be prepared and carry a gun if need be to defend myself or my loved ones.
How do you make it work? This isn't an easy one for me...
4/16/2007 06:00:00 PM
What causes a person to become so deranged to kill so many people? How could a mentally unstable person acquire a gun in the first place? This is just horrible..
4/16/2007 06:25:00 PM
I think even those who support for gun control own guns themselves. This is not a political issue. People buy guns to protect themselves and their families, not to commit crimes.
These days, you hear about terrorism almost every time you listen to the news or read a newspaper. Sept 11 terrorist attacks reminded a lot of Americans that we cannot rely on the government to protect us from crimes.
My heart goes to the victims and their families, and this just days before the Columbine shooting anniversary. This is so very sad.
4/16/2007 07:17:00 PM
OMG. This is horrendous. Was the shooter a student? I don't understand why anyone would do something like this. It's insane, so senseless.
4/16/2007 07:32:00 PM
It's possible that the shooter is a student but he has not yet been identified.
My thoughts and prayers to the families of the victims.
*Carla*
4/16/2007 07:43:00 PM
I was at school when I heard about this tragedy. So shocking, so sad! I kept thinking what will happen if some one like that shooter comes to my school. Incidents like this shake people’s peace of mind and their sense of safety and provoke terror in masses. But to vote for Gun Control is to ignore a person’s right to defense him/herself. If some maniac sets a building on fire, should all the lighters and matches become illegal? Although, I think there has to be some laws to control who can acquire a gun.
4/16/2007 08:43:00 PM
Ok, if you couldn't tell by my screen name, I am pro guns.
I have my CCW (Carry Concealed Weapon) Permit. I love the fact that I know I at least have the option to defend myself from great bodily harm rather than not be prepared and become a victim.
With a CCW there are still quite a few places that are illegal to carry a gun, such as, a bar (establishment which makes the majority of it's monies on the sale of alcohol so a restaurant that serves alcohol you can carry in to if you are not drinking), to a large public gathering such as a concert or sporting event and on any type of daycare or school property including dorm rooms. These poor people, even if they did have a weapons permit, would not have been able to defend themselves.
I have never heard of a person who legally is carrying a gun to pull a mass murder. When I PAID OUT THE ASS for my permit, I had to get fingerprinted, have a background check, register with my state, take a gun class, have so many hours, logged with an instructor, of gun range time, take a test AND all of the above had to revolve around a government building’s time which we all know government buildings are always off for some STUPID holiday and are only open for what seems like an hour a day and it’s of course while you are at work so you have to take time off. Did I mention I PAID OUT THE ASS?
Guns are very easy to obtain illegally, it's actually harder to get a gun following by the law and it's more expensive to follow the law too.
Guns don't kill people, people (fucking whack jobs) kill people.
4/16/2007 10:43:00 PM
I'm not against guns; it does serve as a protection for a lot of us. Although it makes you think twice when things like this school shooting happen and precious lives are wasted.
Personally, I don't think gun control could have saved the lives of the victims. The shooter could have set a fire on the building or throw a grenade in the classrooms or run amok with a machete. Even without a gun, he would have still killed those people.
Maybe we should have stronger campaign against illegal guns and stronger background check to all gun sales.. Like GWB (who obviously knows more about guns than i do), it's easy to obtain guns illegally.
4/17/2007 05:25:00 AM
Cool, first abortion, now gun rights.
A wacked out psycho killed the first person in this case; gun control laws killed the rest.
The state of Virginia recently had the opportunity to allow those with a concealed carry license to carry on college campuses; the legislature turned it down.
If there was a student with a concealed handgun in the vicinity of this nut job, once the first shot was fired, the innocent people could have been defended by the person legally carrying a gun. But since the elected officials felt that no one should carry on a college campus, than the only with a gun was the criminal.
I am a huge supporter of our right to arm ourselves, against deranged lunatics, be it one-on-one situations or mass killings like this. The Bill of Rights was passed to clarify individual rights, not government rights. It's amazing that the other 9 amendments are considered to be individual rights, but the anti-gun crowd read the 2nd Amendment as being a state right.
There was a case in Texas, I think, where some guy started shooting and he was killed by a passer-by who carried; that limited the rampage.
I find it interesting that some feel that the police should prevent crimes like this; and while there are some things cops can do to deter crime, the reality is they are not there to stop it before it happens or while it happens. In all of the rampages we've heard about in the last 10 years - how often was the gunman taken out by a cop? More often than not, they killed themselves when they were done.
From my cold, dead hands.
4/17/2007 10:51:00 AM
I am totally against guns. I believe that even if the intention isn't to use it, once you have it in the house if youare crazily angry you might just get frustrated enough to use it.
This university shooting is so sad, tragic and shocking. I so feel for the victims' families. Too sad.
4/17/2007 02:46:00 PM
I'm against guns too. I understand that people want to protect themselves, but I don't like the idea of having guns everywhere. Luckily, I'm not American. Where I live, guns are not easily obtained and I can't think of one single incidence like this one. Of course, smaller country, but still...
4/17/2007 06:08:00 PM
I'm really not sure what I should say about this as I'm another Non-amercian and struggle to understand the concept of everyone having the inalienable right to kill other people. Yes I agree that it it is nutters with guns that kill, not guns themselves, but I also think that if you remove the gun, you down scale that tradgedy. Carnage like this is diect result of the indescriminant killing potential of guns.
It's things like this that make you wonder where the hell we are heading to as a spieces.
4/17/2007 06:40:00 PM
I am also non American and live in a country that bans guns without a licence and the general population do not carry them. Only our armed defender squad carry arms and we have never had a school incident like this. Kids with guns ... plain stupidity as far as I'm concerned. Teenagers getting upset about something and then using lax gun control laws to make a whole pile of people pay for their angst. I can't think of anything dumber or sadder.
4/18/2007 07:02:00 AM
Gotta respond to some of this --
-- "Teenagers" - the guy in this most recent case is 23 years old, hardly a teenager; in prior cases (Columbine, et al), numerous gun laws were violated by numerous people up to and including the shooters. If we could just get criminals to obey laws, all would be well.
-- We (the US) does not have an inalienable right to kill each other; murder is clearly illegal. What we do have a right to is to defend ourselves - against those who are threatening our lives or against a government who has/may become a murderous regime, something that has happened time and time and time again in this world. Do you think Hitler taking guns away from Jews before he started what we now refer to as the holocaust was simply a coincidence? No, he wanted to disarm his intended victims so they couldn't fight back.
Think that couldn't happen today? I'm not willing to risk it. I imagine the people in Rwonda, and Darfur, and a few other countries who are seeing people killed by the thousands by a rogue dictator (or even validly elected loon) wish they had a stash of guns available to fight back in stead of seeing their family executed.
Even countries who ban guns have problems with criminals who use guns. Amazing, guns are outlawed but the criminals don't pay attention to the laws; go figure.
If the US were to ban guns; actually, let's look at a few examples - Washington DC and New York City - have banned guns. Do you think there is no gun crime there? There's lots of gun crime there, but the law-abiding citizens have no way to defend themselves against the criminals.
We live at the edge of town; no close neighbors. My only recourse if someone breaks in is to defend myself; 911 won't get there in time where I live. Some states have a law that says if someone breaks in to my house, I can not defend myself with lethal force. So, basically, the law is saying that a criminal breaking in to my house has more rights than I do. Were is the sense in that?
4/18/2007 10:34:00 AM
I'm sorry but, WHAT THE FUCK?
"RICHMOND, Va. - Virginia Tech senior Cho Seung-Hui walked into a Roanoke gun shop five weeks ago, put down a credit card and walked out with a Glock 19 handgun and a box of ammunition. He paid $571.
“It was a very unremarkable sale,” said Markell, who did not handle the sale personally. “He was a nice, clean-cut college kid. We won’t sell a gun if we have any idea at all that a purchase is suspicious.”
Markell said it’s not unusual for college students to make purchases at his shop as long as they are old enough.
Cho held a green card, meaning he was a legal, permanent resident, according to federal officials. That meant he was eligible to buy a handgun unless he had been convicted of a felony.
“The key thing that we have seen in all of these school shootings is easy access to high firepower weapons,” said Daniel Vice, an attorney with the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. “These killings can’t be done with baseball bats and knives.”
Under Virginia law, state police keep records of gun purchases from licensed dealers for only 30 days. After that, police destroy the records."
Is that all it fucking takes to buy a gun in Virginia? An US residence and "looking normal"? What the hell kind of laws are those?
Even in my tiny, mostly non-violent country (nothing like this, or even remotely close to it has EVER happened) to buy a gun you must have a certificate from a shooting school (or whatever those are called LOL) that says what type of weapons you know how to handle, you have to take a drug test and a psychological test as well. And after you get your license to carry/buy a weapon you have to go back every year and renew it and go through the same tests again. Yes, it sounds like a hell of a lot to go through every year, but measures like these would've taken care of a crazy fuck like that kid killing all those innocent people!
I get people having the right to protect themselves and buying guns for that purpose. Hell I'm all for it really, but making it this freaking easy for ANYONE to own a weapon that could destroy the life of an innocent person in a second? Well that's just bloody stupid IMO!
4/18/2007 03:22:00 PM
To buy a firearm, you have to go through a background check under federal law, which Cho had to pass before he could walk out with the handgun. If you don't pass the background check, you don't get the gun.
If you wish to carry concealed, each state has slightly different laws, but they generally include background check, fingerprinting, a gun course, and certain renewal requirements.
There are a lot of uses for buying a gun in which you don't need to carry conceal, so buying is easier than having the right to carry concealed.
4/18/2007 03:52:00 PM
I agree with 2ndamdt on everything they said. Ban guns? Killers are already breaking the law by murdering someone, what is one more law broken by illegally obtaining a gun? That's would be like worrying about getting a ticket for running a red light in a high speed pursuit.
If one of the victims had a legally obtained gun and was allowed to have it on campus maybe only 10 would be dead instead of 33.
I won't say my country is perfect but it is mine and we aren't the only one that has violence issues.
Beslan, Russia in September of 2004 had a major situation where 344 civilians (186 were children) were killed in a school/hostage situation.
Quebec, Canada 4 people were killed at Concordia University in '92.
Dunblane, Scotland in March of '96 16 children were shot to death in their school.
Sanaa, Yemen, on March 30, 1997. Mohammad Ahman al-Naziri, 48, attacked hundreds of pupils at two schools, killing six children and two adults with an assault rifle.
Quebec, Canada in '06 Dawson College 1 killed 19 injured.
Melbourne, Australia at Monash University in '02 student kills 2 and injures 5.
Erfurt, Germany in '02 Johann Gutenbery Gymnasium 16 people were killed.
Osake, Japan in '01 Ikeda Elementary School 8 kids (7 and 8 years old) were killed and 13 more were seriously injured.
It's every where, not just the U.S. Those are just school shootings, not any other mass murders.
I'm proud my friends and family have died fighting for my rights, especially my 2nd amendment right. My country is giving me the option to protect myself or be a victim. It is MY choice.
Gun laws are not stopping bad guys, it is hindering the good guys. Like my grandpa always said, a cash register is to keep honest people from stealing, the criminals won't let a little thing like a register step in between them and the money.
4/18/2007 11:33:00 PM
Guys, I am in favor of everyone being able to buy a gun to protect themselves but I also believe there should be more than "looking normal", being a resident of the US and not having a criminal record to BUY a gun.
How does it affect your constitutional rights if you have to take a psych/drug test, learn how to shoot and THEN buy the gun anyway? I think everyone would be much much safer that way and still have the chance to own/carry a gun if they wished.
This kid was obviously derranged. The requirements I mentioned above couldn've saved the lives of 33 people. Yes, perhaps he could've gotten the gun illegaly. I don't know....
I am late for class. But later today I'll write the story of one of my best friends who was killed by a gun when he was just 23 and sitting at home checking his emails.
And maybe Harlot will tell us what happened to her mom while pregnant with her little brother.
Nothing is every black and white.
Hugs.
4/19/2007 02:13:00 AM
Alright. Well, when i was little, stupid fucks from our neighborhood who have guns shoot at the air during New Year's Eve. You know, as fireworks. Assholes. I'll never forget NYE 1990. My lovely mom was 5 months pregnant with my little brother. She was in the kitchen, bending over to get some stuff. Two bullets pass through our roof and landed not a feet away from her. I don't want to think of what would have happened if those hit my mom because that scares me to death.
My mom kept those bullets; she still have them. I was only 9 when it happened and at the time wasn't privy of such matters but i'm pretty sure my dad did something about our fucking neighbors because those shooting at the air stuff had stopped after that year.
For god's sake, i'm not saying BAN GUNS. But i think a stronger background check with psych and drug tests should be included BEFORE you can acquire a gun. Also, is something being done with selling multiple guns to a single buyer in a short period of time? This usually means those buyers sell those guns in the street. I mean, honestly, someone (who probably has a clean record and can pass background check) who buys multiple guns at a time is not getting them for hunting!
4/19/2007 08:35:00 AM
Freedom entails responsibility, and it is the responsibility that many people don't want. Sadly, pathetically, they're perfectly willing to give up freedom to actively avoid it. From the person who is perfectly willing to give up their right to self defense and give the State sole responsibility for their safety, down to the lowly vagrant who will give up the bottle for a night in exchange for someone taking responsibility for providing him shelter.
4/19/2007 04:40:00 PM
In my state (Michigan) in order to get a gun you have to go to the police station, get a permit per hand gun, use the permit at the gun shop and return with the filled out permit (gun serial number, status if it is new or used, where and whom purchased it) then you have to take the actual gun to the police station and they register it in the system. If there was a major purchase I would assume a red flag would go off.
I am all for everyone going through gun safety courses so people will understand the full weight of the responsibility of being a gun owner. I don't think this will prevent further murders, however, but there would be less accidents. Firing a gun within city limits is prohibited here but I understand the concerns of stray bullets for people shooting guns in the air. I had a field trip to the county morgue for school and there was a 6 yr-old-girl killed from a stray shot in the air. Also psyc evaluations would be great too but just because someone passes the test doesn’t mean that they won’t snap some time down the road or they are just a convincing liar and know what to say. We used to have what was called a “cooling down period” law where you couldn’t get your gun until 5 days after you purchased it. That way if you were crazy pissed at your spouse and wanted to shoot him (bastard not taking out the garbage) you had 5 days to cool down and get straight minded again so you didn’t do something rash. Don’t know why they got rid of that law.
2ndamdt, I found this interesting...
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Guatemala established gun control in 1964. >From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Uganda established gun control in 1970. >From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Cambodia established gun control in 1956. >From 1975 to 1977, one million ’educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
4/19/2007 06:18:00 PM
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