Friday, April 13, 2007

The A word

This morning in Political Marketing class, we ventured off into the oh-so-scary topic of abortion. We discussed how political candidates being in favor or against it, can win or loose votes, and sometimes, even elections.

I am one hundred percent pro-choice so no matter which way a politician swings in this matter, I won’t hold it against them; I am clear on where I stand in this subject, and that’s all I need to know.

Now, what bothers me are the presidents, candidates, politicians and idiots in general that have the gal to say they are pro-life but approve of abortion in cases of rape, emotional distress on the mother and/or fetal impairment. But, ummm, correct me if I’m wrong, isn’t the whole point of being pro-life saving THE existence of an unborn human? Then why the hell is it OK for a chosen group to “kill” a fetus when for the rest it isn’t? What, pray tell, is it that you are against: the “carnage” or the reason behind it?

Really, dim-witted fucks activists, give me a fucking break! You want to know what gives me emotional distress? This bloody stupidity!

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35 comment(s):

Anonymous Der said...

My thoughts exactly! I have always been pro choice, but I also believe that an abortion isn't something to be taken lightly.

4/13/2007 06:19:00 PM  

Blogger Isabella said...

So true Trollop. I'm pro choice too but I agree with Der.

I know this is way OT and no connection whatsoever to Trollop's good post, and I don't know why but it reminds me of what Roseanne Barr recently said:

Never once in my 54 years have I ever once heard a gay or lesbian person who's politically active say one thing about anything that was not about them. They don't care about minimum wage, they don't care about any other group other than their own self because you know, some people say being gay and lesbian is a totally narcissistic thing and sometimes I wonder.
I've never heard any of them say anything except for "accept me cause I'm gay."
It's just, it's screwed. It's no different than the evangelicals, it's the same mindset. They want you to accept Jesus and you guys want us to all believe it's ok to be gay. And a lot of us, a lot of them, I do, I don't give a damn who anybody has sex with, as long as they're not underage and an animal. I don't give a damn, it's none of my damn business. I'm just sick of all the divisiveness, it's not getting any of us anywhere.


Just sharing folks. I'm not saying there's something wrong with being gay (lots of gay friends) I just think Roseanne made a good point about politics, like Trollop did. :)

4/13/2007 07:17:00 PM  

Anonymous Karamia said...

Good Post. I am a Christian,(and I absolutely love the Book Bitches :0, not a very typical Christian perhaps) and would not want someone close to me to ever choose abortion, but I still think we need to have it be legal. But I also believe that gay and lesbian couples should be able to get married.
I really wish the "activists" (DWFs) that spend so much time and energy protesting abortion rights would put even some of that energy into taking care of all the neglected children in this world.

4/13/2007 09:22:00 PM  

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Personally, I just don't like pro-lifers because I hated walking to class in college and seeing poster-sized pictures of aborted fetuses. It's not right to force that on any and everyone that has to walk to class. Even if I was pro-life... I don't think I deserve to have those images forced on me. They did this at least once a year, and had at least 50 posters in an unavoidable place.

-Kai

4/14/2007 12:55:00 AM  

Blogger Jolie said...

Abortion is always hard. Women who unexpected get pregnant have to deal with tough choices. Whether you're an unwed teenager who got stupid and didn't use birth control or you are a married mother of four and doesn't want to have children anymore, you have to make a choice.

Sometimes women abort and then they feel guilty afterwards. Sometimes they don't abort and wish they did. Sometimes they make the wrong choice. I live in a free country where abortion should be MY choice. Whether it's right or wrong, it should be the mother's choice, NOT the government's.

Good post Trollop.

4/14/2007 02:32:00 AM  

Blogger Ladybug said...

It would be better if activists work to make adoption easier, to provide financial help to women who have to abort because of financial reasons. If you want to bar abortion, you'll have to give an alternative so women won't choose not to abort.

4/14/2007 03:46:00 AM  

Blogger Ladybug said...

**That should be "so women will choose to not abort". Sleepiness jeez.

4/14/2007 04:37:00 AM  

Anonymous Luci said...

I wasn't going to post here cause abortion is a very sensitive and conflicting subject in my opinion.

I am anti-abortion even when rape or unwanted pregnancies are involved. Babies can always be given up for adoption into loving families. I have seen this happen countless times at our family's private Hospitals.

The abortion posters are important because they show you exactly how cruel abortion is. Now, if you want to abort it is your choice, but what is so wrong about wanting to inform you that the fetus is destroyed into bits before being removed?

And excuse me, I know many are going to hate me, but I find it repellent that people would agree with an abortion that pulls a 20- week formed fetus into bits and then cry their hearts out if a cat or a dog twists its ankles.

Just saying.....

Sorry was a bit strong. I respect everyone's opinion, but before making a choice I believe one has to be properly informed.

4/14/2007 07:21:00 AM  

Anonymous 2ndAmdt said...

I think you have stated the typical exceptions to abortion that are generally accepted by pro-lifers wrong; the typical exceptions are in the cases of rape, incest or if the life of the mother is threatened (not the mental health, and certainly not fetal impairment). Now there are some pro-lifers who won't even except these rare occasions, just as there are some pro-choice people who honestly believe that abortion should be rare, as opposed to a form of birth control as it is practiced by some (note, I said some, not all). And I would imagine even most pro-choice'ers would disagree with the prof who states post-birth abortion up to 30 days after birth is acceptable (yep, that's right, kill the kid if s/he turns out to be not what you wanted, just do it before s/he is a month old).

But to answer your question as to why it's okay for the rare exceptions that I've stated above? Well, if the life of the mother is in danger ... that's obvious, I would think, because the mother may die. Incest and rape - well, probably not as obvious but you're dealing with illegal acts and resulting emotional stuff. How these got carved out, I don't know. IMO, emotional distress of the mother is a BS excuse and not acceptable. Should of thought of that before doing the deed.

What I don't get is women who can kill their child, but refuse to consider adoption. Let's see, it's okay to kill the kid, but not allow someone else to raise it. Where's the sense in that?!?

I suppose it is all a matter of perspective. Pro-choice'ers tend to believe that a woman's body is sacred, and I tend to believe that a baby ... yes, baby, not fetus, not tissue, a baby ... is sacred. Life begins at conception and all that.

I've voted for Republicans who are pro-choice because their Democrat opponent would be much worse IMO, but I never financially support them. I'm sure some who are pro-choice have done just the opposite, when two candidates present themselves like that.

If you look at the '08 presidential election. I think Rudy would have a good shot of winning the whole thing, but I don't think he can get past the primaries with his stance on abortion. Too man hard-core conservatives just can't support abortion, including government funded abortion.

4/14/2007 09:02:00 AM  

Blogger Harlot said...

Luci, I agree with you about those who will abort like it's nothing and then care more about a dog. Don't mean to judge but really, a dog is more important? :/

I've been raised in a very religious family. My mother don't even swear and i'm pretty sure my dad thinks i'm still a virgin. :/ Very disconcerting really. Anyway, i'm anti-abortion. I mean, for myself, because i don't think i can do it :S that sort of thing will haunt me forever even if said pregnancy might come unwanted. For others, however, if a friend of mine come to me and ask me if she should abort her baby, i would suggest for her to think about it a MILLION times and that there are other possible recourses before doing it, but the choice will still be hers.

People shouldn't impose their religious beliefs on others. That's just wrong, and verra annoying i gotta say. I don't think abortion will ever be legal here in my very Roman Catholic country. Divorce isn't even possible! The thing though, it shouldn't be the Church or the government's right to control women's right to give birth at a time of their own choosing.

Abortion is a personal freedom. If you see it as a sin, then DO NOT DO IT. But should the government control when you are going to have kids? Having a child is a personal right and it should only be the parents who should make that choice. Pro-choice isn't pro-abortion. It means having given the choice to have children or not.

4/14/2007 09:14:00 AM  

Blogger Harlot said...

"What I don't get is women who can kill their child, but refuse to consider adoption. Let's see, it's okay to kill the kid, but not allow someone else to raise it. Where's the sense in that?!?"

Exactly. Also, if the government and/or society force you to have a child, well, they should have the decency to care, feed, educate that child. I mean, i think that means tax increases and social programs and such for those children who would have been aborted. If they're willing to do that, then that's good. But the thing is, why are there no commitments to defend these kids AFTER they're born?

I support a woman to have a child as well as her right to not have one. I highly encourage adoption and any programs that provide alternatives to pregnant women.

4/14/2007 09:23:00 AM  

Anonymous Dreamer said...

"Incest and rape - well, probably not as obvious but you're dealing with illegal acts and resulting emotional stuff. How these got carved out, I don't know. IMO, emotional distress of the mother is a BS excuse and not acceptable. Should of thought of that before doing the deed.

What I don't get is women who can kill their child, but refuse to consider adoption. Let's see, it's okay to kill the kid, but not allow someone else to raise it. Where's the sense in that?!?"

I don't think the women in these situation had much choice when it came to doing the deed...

Anyway, adoption is an option, but in order to give a child up for adoption, you must first be pregnant for nine months and have morning sickness, weirdo cravings, swollen ankles, back aches, weight gain, stretch marks and all that jazz. And when that's through with, you have to give birth, which really wreaks havoc on your body, in addition to being very painful, even the easiest of them. That's a lot to sacrifice for a child you never wanted in the first place, especially if you were raped or sexually abused. Just imagine having to go through all that because of a crime was commited against you.

Btw, I'm Der (pressed the wrong button at the wrong time last time I posted).

Abortion is, like I said, not to be taken lightly, but it should be the woman's choice, not the government's. It's her life and her body, and no one should have the right to decide what happens to it. Personally, I don't think I'd be able to go through with an abortion, but those who feel that they would be, should be allowed to do so, without being judged by others for their choices.

4/14/2007 10:30:00 AM  

Blogger Vanessa said...

I don't think I'd be able to abort a child of mine. It goes against everything I believe in. I'm not going to impose this on others though. A woman's body is hers and hers alone. No one should make her do something she doesn't want to.

4/14/2007 10:57:00 AM  

Blogger Vanessa said...

Dreamer, you just enumerated the pains of an expecting mother! Lol. But good point anyway.

4/14/2007 10:59:00 AM  

Anonymous 2ndAmdt said...

Dreamer - you quoted some of my stuff, but it wasn't meant to be read together as I think you have. Rape and incest are of course not of their own choosing; but my other comments were not geared towards those situations.

Someone mentioned parentsssssss - parents - both of those involved in the baby-making process. Interesting that I don't think there is a state in this country that allows men to have a say ... wait, I think Florida does have a father's registry, but I'm not sure that can stop a woman from getting an abortion or if it is just related to adoption. Anyway, for the most part, men have not been recognized to have any rights to the baby prior to birth. Now on the other hand, if my DH wanted a vasectomy, I have to sign off on it. Huh?

I think one of the areas that pro-choice people have gone to far on is the "right" of minor daughters to get abortions without their parents consent. That is wrong, IMO. I as a parent have a right to know what is being done to my child (both the abortion and the reason for abortion). You can always through out the extreme cases of abusive parents, but that should not interfere with my rights in a health parent/child relationship.

Yeah, women do sometimes go through nasty pregnancies; other times, they are simple, and easy, and even delivery (with the right anesthesiologist ;-) ) can be a breeze. But maybe you are right, the comfort and dress size of the mother is way more important than the life of a human being.

I think the reality is that both sides, pro-abortion and anti-abortion, use extremes to prove their point. I throw out the abortion-as-birth-control and partial birth abortion arguments and others toss around rape and incest. Both are extremes and I bet represent only a small percentage of abortions performed.

4/14/2007 12:10:00 PM  

Anonymous 2ndAmdt said...

My "mother's comfort" comment may have been a bit snotty, so my apologies. I like this board because debate and diverse views are welcome and I don't want to overstep the bounds of acceptable behavior.

4/14/2007 12:36:00 PM  

Blogger Vicious Trollop said...

Guys, I doubt most women who choose not to have a child are doing it to stay the same dress size.

Not only that, I seriously doubt that people that make this choice find it easy. There are of course all types of situations and I do not believe women should be using abortion as a birth control method either but in the end, who is the one that will have to live and die with that decision, you, me, the government, the church or the person making it? Who will clothe, love (or probably not love), feed and raise that child?

Yes, women have to be careful not to get pregnant and in this day and age with all the birth control options around you have to be pretty irresponsible to wind up pregnant. But your punishment for not being careful is raising a child you don't want? I think that's a tad extreme, not to mention unfair in the most horrible way to both the mother and the kid.

On adoption: I know some kids that have been adopted, and let me tell you, being them isn't pretty. Most often than not you spend your whole life feeling you were rejected by those who should have loved you more. It's very sad in some cases, though yes, not all.

In any case, my question is: If you are pro-life why do you believe that its ok for a certain group of individuals to have abortions and not others? It sounds to me like what they want is to punish those who "deserved" to get pregnant? Like, oh well, its ok if we kill the fetus if you were raped and so on, in that case the little baby means nothing, but if you went out and got pregnant out of wedlock (or some such other crap) then you surely deserve to be stuck raising that child, you sinful whore!

4/14/2007 12:37:00 PM  

Anonymous 2ndAmdt said...

I totally disagree that those who are adopted live a life of rejection; in my law firm there are 8 children adopted (out of 20 total among the partners), and trust me, they don't feel the least bit rejected. Are there some adjustments? Sure, but ask them if they would prefer to be dead.

But, okay, you want specifics
why some exceptions to the no abortion rule are allowed. You want the real reason or the stated reason?

The stated reasons are as follows:

Life of mother: well, the assumption here is that the mother has a husband and other children, and for the sake of her other children and family, it is acceptable to terminate the pregnancy if there is a real and present threat to the mother's life. Is this right in the whole scheme of things, I don't know.

Rape: rape is enough of a stigma without having a child who then gets to grow up knowing that s/he was the product of a violent act such as rape.

Incest: I'm guessing that some incest is also rape, but there is also the biological issue that parents too closely related present genetic problems and birth defects.

Now, for the real reason: because it is easier to chip away at abortion by saying we should allow it except ... and then slowly rein in the exceptions. It's called a slippery slope and something the pro-choice'ers are very afraid of (just like pro-gun people are adamant against any gun regulations because of where it may eventually lead).

In rational discussion it's easy to get someone to agree to baby steps, when the foundation is presented properly, but those baby steps can lead to giant leaps. Seems to me its not a lot different from the pro-choice camp demanding that partial birth abortion remain available as well as no parental notification or consent. Because if they agree to those "reasonable" restrictions, what will be allowed next? If the pro-life people agree to "reasonable" exceptions, they have a better chance of swaying those in the middle to their camp.

4/14/2007 02:17:00 PM  

Anonymous Ollenska said...

Ah ... abortion. Pro-life vs. pro-choice. I will tell my children what my mom had told me: Pregnancy is your option not your function.

Some people believe sex is a sin and getting pregnant is God's way of punishing women for being sluts. Maybe if you take abortion and birth control away, it will force women to not have sex?

It all comes down to a woman's right not to have children if that is her choice. But sometimes the idea of a fertile woman not choosing to procreate offends some people that they forget any social boundaries they may have had. Good discussion girls!

Olly

4/14/2007 03:31:00 PM  

Blogger Lorelei said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

4/14/2007 04:11:00 PM  

Blogger Lorelei said...

Abortion is always a difficult topic and it should not be taken lightly. I don't know if I should be pro-life or pro-choice. I sympathize with both sides and I believe each one has merit.

Pro-choice:
--I would expect a woman to have an abortion if her life is in danger.
--I very much support contraception and comprehensive sex education.
--No matter what the woman's reason is, if she wants to have an abortion, she has the right to have it.

Pro-life:
--I value a fetus, it's our future generation, and I do believe it is a living thing.
--Abortion is NOT birth control.
--I just do not like abortion. I do think it should be illegal. Instead, more help should be provided for unwanted unborn babies and their mothers.

I believe it's all about contraception. Those people who are against birth control and at the same time against abortion will never get anywhere. Asking people to not have sex is ridiculous. People are not gonna go by what another group of people tells them to do.

4/14/2007 04:14:00 PM  

Blogger Petra said...

RE: why do you believe that its ok for a certain group of individuals to have abortions and not others?

RAPE - If rape is the cause of pregnancy, I don't think that makes the child "less innocent" or that abortion is less wrong. However, someone who's been through such a horrible experience needs to be given moral deference, especially by those who haven't been through such situation.

The point is, we shouldn't hold women who've been raped responsible for wanting abortion. But still, how can you justify making abortion legal, even if you put the moral deference point? Isn't it the government's responsibility to protect a human life (a fetus) from those who would want to harm it, even if the ones doing it have to be given moral deference and shouldn't be held responsible for what they seek to do?

INCEST - If it's rape within the family, then it falls under rape. If it's consensual incest, abortion shouldn't be an exemption.

MOTHER'S LIFE AT STAKE - I'm thinking the point in this is, if the pregnant woman is going to die unless she has an abortion, at least let one live than both the mother and fetus die.

4/14/2007 05:27:00 PM  

Blogger Isabella said...

Is a fetus a human life or not? If the fetus is human, rape and incest don't justify abortion because the avoidance of shame and financial reasons don't justify murder. Abortion is safe if it were legal, but if the fetus is human, this is like saying certain kinds of murder would be safer if they're legal.

4/14/2007 05:44:00 PM  

Blogger kinky courtesan said...

I like to think i'm pro choice but sometimes i wonder.... when teens use it as a form of birth control i get super pissed. That is one of the problems with american high schools.... i don't know about other countries but we mainly teach abstinance only.... some teens don't know how to have safe sex and prevent pregnancy.... How many teens do you think know the pre-cum fluids contain sperm? I sure didn't..... so i guess... in a round-about way.... i blame schools?? and parents???

4/14/2007 11:19:00 PM  

Blogger kinky courtesan said...

.... stupid blogger.... i didn't even push the publish button...... I wasn't done..... so anywho..... a fetus to me .... is not human until it can live on its own (like breathing not like get its own food).... which is at least after the first trimester.... up until that point.... its just a parasite living in the female body causing lots or problems....

4/14/2007 11:24:00 PM  

Anonymous Gun_Wielding_Bitch said...

I'm not sure what I am politically or in the abortion debate. I'm not a Democrat or a Republican and I'm not Pro-Life nor am I Pro-Choice. I guess I am just another person riding the fence.

I don't like being in a category, because it makes me feel like I am a follower and not an independent thinker.

My feelings on abortion...

Used as a for of birth control, it pisses me off. I hear of women whose men say they will leave and not support a baby girl, they only want a boy so these women find out the sex and have an abortions based on the sex of the child. Disgusting.

Teenage sluts (ok, so they aren't all sluts) who get pregnant piss me off. If you are adult enough to have sex, be ready for the consequences.


On the other hand, rape, incest and life as a vegetable...

Yes, if you are raped, you can give the kid up for adoption but who the hell wants to have a reminder everyday that you got raped? (9 months plus the after effects of pregnancy, including stretch marks, and hormonal changes) Especially if it is a girl under 18 who needs to finish school and enjoy her youth. Why should she suffer more than she has to? Why should the child suffer not understanding why their mommy gave them away? I don’t care how great the adoptive family is either, the child will always have a feeling of being discarded at some point in their life. And that is IF the child makes it out of the foster home system to a nice family. A lot of kids get fostered to people who are using them for money and tax breaks and treat the kids like shit and there are a lot of adopted kids who get taken in by child molesters and child abusers. There are THOUSANDS of kids waiting for a home, suffering in the system that is over crowded and many fall through the cracks. Why add to that?

In cases of the child having severe deformity and cannot live out a full and meaningful life as in incest cases and such, why make the child live a meaningless life of lying in a bed, not able to communicate and not able to read or watch TV and just stares off into space drooling and making noises? Which is more cruel, having the abortion and stopping the shit before it starts or making this child suffer?

I think there are specific cases in which I would think abortion was justifiable and cases where I think the chick was an asshole but my bottom line is, I'll be damned if someone is going to tell me what I can do with my body or how to live my life. If I want to dance naked in my backyard chanting to the Moon Gods or if I want to shave my head and tattoo it to look like an Easter egg, then I will. I want the government and religious extremist to stay out of my home and life because I stay out of theirs. Don't make up my mind for me, it's not your right. Don't push your ideas on me because I don’t push mine on you.

4/15/2007 11:30:00 AM  

Anonymous Dreamer said...

"in this day and age with all the birth control options around you have to be pretty irresponsible to wind up pregnant."

I don't think that's entirely true. You can take every precaution and still wind up pregnant. For instance, just last year, I was on the pill, and then I forgot to take it one day. I had sex within the next week, but we used a condom, like they tell you to. So we should have been pretty safe, right? Nope, the condom broke. I was lucky, I didn't get pregnant, but it's an example of how you can get pregnant even when you're being responsible.

"I totally disagree that those who are adopted live a life of rejection."

This is, in my opinion, not entirely true either. Even if you do end up in a great family, you're alway going to wonder why your biological parents didn't want you. It's only natural.
Now, I'm not adopted or anything, but I do have some experience with something similar. My biological was never a part of my father's life, and it follows that he was never a part of mine either. My grandmother married my "grandfather" when my father was four, so I've never really missed having this man in my life, but I still feel rejected by him because he never wanted to meet me, or my father, even though I know his reasons for not getting in touch. He actually lived half an hour away from us all my life, yet never made any attempt to contact us, even though he knew about my dad and he must have guessed that he probably had grandchildren.

I suppose that was a bit of a digression, but anywho...I feel that when I'm discussing this issue, people jump on me as if I'm for using abortion as birth control. That is not what I'm saying at all: I cannot stress enough that abortion shouldn't be taken lightly, but it should be there as a way out. It's not an easy way out, but I don't believe that rape/incest victims should have to go through a pregnancy if they don't want to, and neither should any other woman. For me, being pro choice isn't really about approving of abortion: it's about letting others choosing for themselves what's right for them. I don't think anyone else should have the right to pass judgment on other people's life choices. It's easy to say that you're against abortion in all situations, until you find yourself in one of those situations yourself, so unless you've been there...

The real discussion here, I think, is whether a fetus is a human being or not. In my opinion, it's the beginning of a human being, but until its brain is fully functional and it's able to live outside it's mother's body, I don't think it merits the definition of human being. A bit harsh, maybe, but it is my opinion. In my country, you're only allowed to choose abortion until the 12th week of pregnancy, which is well before the fetus has developed a functional brain. After that, you can apply for abortion until the 18th week if you are under special circumstances. I think that's a pretty fair rule.

4/15/2007 03:01:00 PM  

Blogger Jordis said...

Re: If you are pro-life why do you believe that its ok for a certain group of individuals to have abortions and not others?

What a good discussion. Ok, one can argue that a woman who engaged in sex (even if she used birth control) doesn't have the right to remove the fetus from her body because by having consensual sex, she accepted the possibility of a fetus in her womb and that means taking the responsibility for its well-being. But in a rape case, the woman doesn't voluntarily take the risk of getting pregnant, so she may not be obliged to allow the fetus the use of her body.

This is the same as exposing someone to death because you don't want to shelter said person, which I think is just wrong. I don't agree with this but I think there's some merit to the suggestion that, unlike a woman who's raped, someone who has consensual sex agrees to give a fetus the use of her body.

4/15/2007 03:50:00 PM  

Anonymous Ollenska said...

"The real discussion here, I think, is whether a fetus is a human being or not."

Personally, I think a fetus is a "potential" human being, that it's only a part of the woman.

Olly

4/15/2007 04:04:00 PM  

Anonymous Tinkerbell said...

I do not think those women who have sex without using contraception and thereby become pregnant should be allowed to have an abortion. Take the consequences of your action and be morally responsible.

4/15/2007 04:34:00 PM  

Blogger raspberry swyrl said...

I'm not sure what I would do in such a situation, but I would want all options to be open to me and presented in an informd way.Since I've never been in that situation, I cannot judge any other woman who would choose abortion or would not choose abortion, nor could I ever judge a woman who made a choice. It is her body and not mine. She can make her own informed decision as long as she does not force/expect me to make that same decision.

p.s lets face it, women are pretty judgemental sometimes. This does not help anything.

4/16/2007 12:16:00 AM  

Anonymous Luci said...

As with everything that happens in one's life, I think that you cannot really be adament about something until you have been in that situation, although for me to consider abortion, the situation would have to be extremely extreme.

I do want to say though, that I heard my elder daughter's heartbeat when I was only 5 weeks pregnant, and without judging anyone, that was the most amazing thing that ever happened to me. I couldn't think of wanting to get rid of the fetus after having gone through that emotional moment.

Strange but true, though, the bonding part took much longer for me. I didn't feel that instant bond that mothers with both my girls until about six months after birth, when they started interacting and communicating actively with me.

Also strange is the fact that I have no inclination to have another kid, but when I see a pregnant woman I get a longing to be pregnant. I just love the thought of a baby growing and moving in me. When I think of the birth and after, I get a cold shower.

4/16/2007 06:05:00 AM  

Blogger Harlot said...

Good discussion ladies.

FOR PRO-LIFE...
Personally, i think for pro-life to allow abortion in cases such as rape is VERY much justifiable. However, removing the fetus from the mother's body because its quality of life would be terrible, i don't think that's a pro-life view. Besides, doesn't pro-life means you have a duty to preserve human life? I think pro-life view means the value of life itself is more important than "property" rights (for a woman who's raped and didn't agree to give the fetus the use of her body) or quality of life issues (even if a fetus is only a "potential" life).

FOR PRO-CHOICE...
RE: "unlike a woman who's raped, someone who has consensual sex agrees to give a fetus the use of her body."

If you play Russian roulette with a 100-chamber gun and you land on the one chamber with the freaking bullet, i think it's fair to say you committed suicide. If you release a drug on the market that can kill 1% of the people who take it, and only one person buys it and then dies, you are responsible for that death. If you use a condom that's 99% effective and becomes pregnant, are you not morally responsible for engaging in an action that brought on conception and doesn't absolved the way someone who's raped is?

4/16/2007 08:47:00 AM  

Blogger Vicious Trollop said...

Re: Take the consequences of your action and be morally responsible.

The problem with those consequences is that the one that ends up paying and suffering for them is the unwanted child. If you "punish" the mother who do you think suffers for it? Most probably the unwanted-unloved child...

Also, who are we to "punish" "immorals"? I say leave that to god if you believe in him or just do what YOU think is right and let others be :P

I'm loving this discussion LOL :P

4/16/2007 09:42:00 AM  

Blogger kinky courtesan said...

Condoms are not 99% effective...... Its somewhere in the mid-high 80s..... That is kind of scary.... And teens generally don't use the correctly anyways, increasing the risk of pregnancy even more.

4/16/2007 01:39:00 PM