BBC: Eclipse
Okay, here’s the deal. You want me to wait till the 27th to discuss Eclipse because you haven’t read the book yet. I get that. But you want to discuss it as soon as you’re finished? Yeah... screw the 27th! (Please don’t worry, my slow-reading darlings, as the discussion won’t cease as long as someone talks about the book. Feel free to join us anytime. ;))
NOTE: Still haven’t finished Eclipse? STOP. READING. NOW.
Now, as I’ve mentioned, I finished the book Monday and the only one I could talk to was our Dean Winchester-obsessed friend, Dance (she cheated too, ha!—she got the ebook early :P). Basically, here’s what I ranted to her about: I didn’t like Edward, HATED Bella, and Jacob was as obnoxious as ever! Gah.
Too stupid to live? There has never been a day in my life where I ask myself, “What would Bella Swan do?” God-forbid that day comes because I’ll have to disembowel myself samurai-style for the shame I have brought upon my family.
I’m actually willing to take Bella’s selfishness and recklessness (as those mirror my own :/) but her stupidity and immatureness in this book are overwhelming. She keeps placing herself in danger, INSISTING on it, when she knows full well Edward would do ANYTHING to make sure she’s safe—even breaking the pact to cross La Push, starting a war between vampires and werewolves.
Marry me. Trust me when I say I know how extremely painful it is when someone you love asks you to marry him yet for some wretched reason you have to say no. But for the life of me, I don’t understand WHY WHY WHY Bella is so averse to marry Edward.
What’s that? Oh, yeah. Bella is “uncomfortable” with what the town will say about her marrying Edward at 18. Yep. *snort* The same Edward whom she CANNOT live without, the luuuuve of her fucking life, the one who loves her to death and worships the ground she walks on and is marrying her for ALL THE FUCKING RIGHT REASONS—THAT EDWARD!!! Oh, for fuck’s sake, woman! Who the fuck cares what the whole town will say?! You don’t even like most of those people! You’re not even staying in Forks after the wedding! And your reaction to the ring, mygod... I wish Edward had shoved it down your unworthy throat! *grrr*
I *heart* Jacob. Perhaps it’s possible to be in love with two people at the same time, but I’m pretty sure we’ve been told since Twilight—time and time and tiiiiime again—that Bella is irrevocably, crazily, OBSESSIVELY in love with Edward, and Jacob is... well, “just family.” So how come, ALL OF A SUDDEN, she’s in love with Jacob???
Edward is the drug; Jacob is the, what, rehab? *confused* I told Dance this really bothered me, more so than Bella’s stupidity. What’s worse, when she tells Jacob:
Sorry? You’re telling me Bella is REALLY in love with Jacob but since she’s a freaking junkie, she can’t live without her drug (Edward), and therefore has “no choice” but to be with Edward... Seriously? SERIOUSLY?!? (JFC, let me breeeeathe!) Un-freakin-believable! :@
Wolfboy. I’m all for “all’s fair in love and war” and all that crap but Jacob is first and foremost, supposed to be, Bella’s best friend. There are times he is so pushy and down-right disrespectful and won’t stop acting like a total jackass even when he knows he’s hurting Bella’s feelings. What kind of a friend is that? And yet Bella ALWAYS stands up for him to Edward! Ugh! If only Edward had punched his smug face. Or ripped out his throat. Yeah, *glassy eyes* that will do...
Tie me up, tie me down. Edward totally lost it I won’t be surprised if SM tells us, “Surpriiiise! Edward’s been Confunded by the Confundus Chaaaarm!” He’s over-protective and under-handed one minute then complacent and so hands-off the next. He says he’d “play dirty” for Bella and I thought goody good good—as Edward needs some dirtiness in his body—but then he proceeds by tolerating Bella’s stupidity and unfairness in their relationship. Fine. FINE. I get it. He’s super patient with supervampire self-control that will shame supermonks. Hmph! But I honestly doubt even a freaking superSAINT will put up with such crap Bella has given him!
Back stories and poor conflicts. Eclipse is too much and yet not enough at the same time. Apparently, Edward is over with his thirst for Bella’s blood. Hmmm... Since that is out, SM had to create stupid conflicts: like Bella in love with Jacob when she CLEARLY loves Edward, Bella not wanting to get married, Bella offered to be a vampire (what she’s wanted ever since) and then changes her mind, and then changes it again—and then again—and again! OH, FOR THE LOVE OF YUMMY VAMPIRES! And don’t let me start with Wuthering Heights!!!
*breathe*
Er, *ahem* so what say you?
NOTE: Still haven’t finished Eclipse? STOP. READING. NOW.
Now, as I’ve mentioned, I finished the book Monday and the only one I could talk to was our Dean Winchester-obsessed friend, Dance (she cheated too, ha!—she got the ebook early :P). Basically, here’s what I ranted to her about: I didn’t like Edward, HATED Bella, and Jacob was as obnoxious as ever! Gah.
Too stupid to live? There has never been a day in my life where I ask myself, “What would Bella Swan do?” God-forbid that day comes because I’ll have to disembowel myself samurai-style for the shame I have brought upon my family.
I’m actually willing to take Bella’s selfishness and recklessness (as those mirror my own :/) but her stupidity and immatureness in this book are overwhelming. She keeps placing herself in danger, INSISTING on it, when she knows full well Edward would do ANYTHING to make sure she’s safe—even breaking the pact to cross La Push, starting a war between vampires and werewolves.
Marry me. Trust me when I say I know how extremely painful it is when someone you love asks you to marry him yet for some wretched reason you have to say no. But for the life of me, I don’t understand WHY WHY WHY Bella is so averse to marry Edward.
What’s that? Oh, yeah. Bella is “uncomfortable” with what the town will say about her marrying Edward at 18. Yep. *snort* The same Edward whom she CANNOT live without, the luuuuve of her fucking life, the one who loves her to death and worships the ground she walks on and is marrying her for ALL THE FUCKING RIGHT REASONS—THAT EDWARD!!! Oh, for fuck’s sake, woman! Who the fuck cares what the whole town will say?! You don’t even like most of those people! You’re not even staying in Forks after the wedding! And your reaction to the ring, mygod... I wish Edward had shoved it down your unworthy throat! *grrr*
I *heart* Jacob. Perhaps it’s possible to be in love with two people at the same time, but I’m pretty sure we’ve been told since Twilight—time and time and tiiiiime again—that Bella is irrevocably, crazily, OBSESSIVELY in love with Edward, and Jacob is... well, “just family.” So how come, ALL OF A SUDDEN, she’s in love with Jacob???
Edward is the drug; Jacob is the, what, rehab? *confused* I told Dance this really bothered me, more so than Bella’s stupidity. What’s worse, when she tells Jacob:
“The worst part is that I saw the whole thing—our whole life. And I want it bad, Jake, I want it all. I want to stay right here and never move. I want to love you and make you happy. And I can’t, and it’s killing me. It’s like Sam and Emily, Jake—I never had a choice...”
Sorry? You’re telling me Bella is REALLY in love with Jacob but since she’s a freaking junkie, she can’t live without her drug (Edward), and therefore has “no choice” but to be with Edward... Seriously? SERIOUSLY?!? (JFC, let me breeeeathe!) Un-freakin-believable! :@
Wolfboy. I’m all for “all’s fair in love and war” and all that crap but Jacob is first and foremost, supposed to be, Bella’s best friend. There are times he is so pushy and down-right disrespectful and won’t stop acting like a total jackass even when he knows he’s hurting Bella’s feelings. What kind of a friend is that? And yet Bella ALWAYS stands up for him to Edward! Ugh! If only Edward had punched his smug face. Or ripped out his throat. Yeah, *glassy eyes* that will do...
Tie me up, tie me down. Edward totally lost it I won’t be surprised if SM tells us, “Surpriiiise! Edward’s been Confunded by the Confundus Chaaaarm!” He’s over-protective and under-handed one minute then complacent and so hands-off the next. He says he’d “play dirty” for Bella and I thought goody good good—as Edward needs some dirtiness in his body—but then he proceeds by tolerating Bella’s stupidity and unfairness in their relationship. Fine. FINE. I get it. He’s super patient with supervampire self-control that will shame supermonks. Hmph! But I honestly doubt even a freaking superSAINT will put up with such crap Bella has given him!
Back stories and poor conflicts. Eclipse is too much and yet not enough at the same time. Apparently, Edward is over with his thirst for Bella’s blood. Hmmm... Since that is out, SM had to create stupid conflicts: like Bella in love with Jacob when she CLEARLY loves Edward, Bella not wanting to get married, Bella offered to be a vampire (what she’s wanted ever since) and then changes her mind, and then changes it again—and then again—and again! OH, FOR THE LOVE OF YUMMY VAMPIRES! And don’t let me start with Wuthering Heights!!!
*breathe*
Er, *ahem* so what say you?
Labels: and so the lion fell in love with the lamb, bitches book club, i heart ya, paranormal oh joy
Bahaha!!! I knew you couldn't wait!!! I was too angry to wait myself!!! LMAO.
Can I get an AMEN over here??? Bella has been TSTL since the get go but she was damn annoying in this one. How in the HELL do you fall in love with someone else when, so far, you've loved them like a brother??? EWWWW!!!!
How can you fall in love with anyone else when you already said you have the 'love of your life' with you?!?!
That makes NO sense!
I don't buy the crap that everyone keeps dishing out about this whole Jacob thing being a way to give Bella choices. When you are HAPPILY involved you don't need choices. You ALREADY made your choice. Nobody needs to come between you and your significant other just so you get to see 'what you were missing'.
Yes, those are the arguments that are going around as excuses for the whole Jacob-Bella thing.
It's being said that she needed to see she had other options besides being a vampire. Well, hello, of course she does! She can choose to be human! There's a choice! You don't have to throw in another love [that I am STILL not buying] just to make it more balanced.
Also, this whole thing cheapened the supposed 'tru love' deal Bella and Edward had. How are we supposed to believe that she loves him soooooo much if she is now in love [AND said she wished to be] with someone else?!?! AND she cried hysterically all night about Jacob in Edward's arms?!?!
I'd have kick her off the bed. :-P
Even worse [if it can get any worse] is that, the way she puts it, it isn't her fault that she is stuck with Edward and can't be with Jacob. She says clearly she doesn't have a choice to love Edward [is this some kind of mind control thing?!?!] and that's why she can't be with Jacob.
I'm sure Edward loves that.
Edward: sheesh, thanks honey, I'm grateful you feel that you are stuck with me or otherwise, if you had a choice, you'd leave me for Jake.
WTF?!
Sorry, end of rant.
I feel much better! LMAO.:-P
P.S. Didn't Stephenie say that people wouldn't be able to dislike Jacob after they read Eclipse? What was she THINKING? I am now HATING on the poor guy! What kind of friend tries and get between a friend and her man?!
I can't believe I'm supposed to be rooting for this guy. (O_o)
8/09/2007 06:42:00 PM
Oh and another thing [yeah yeah, I can't let this go I'm so mad lol] I don't know HOW Stephenie plans to clear this mess up.
I now doubt just about everything that comes out of Bella's mouth. Is she going to realize all of a sudden that she DOESN'T love Jake and was just having a stressful day or something?!
Tell me again why Edward wants to marry this chick?
I'm not sure I get it anymore. :-P
Jake needs to get imprinted. NOW.
Quil and his two-year-old are way to icky for me. Yikes.
8/09/2007 06:51:00 PM
Harlot, thank God you posted this thread already! I thought I would have to wait for weeks before we discuss Eclipse.
First of all, good way to start the discussion. "What would Bella Swan do?" hahahaha
-- OMG Jacob Black
I hate him now. HATE HIM. I don't even get it why he keeps insisting on loving Bella when they are clearly not for each other? When he imprints (what's the right term?) with someone else, he would absolutely forget about Bella so why make everyone else suffer for insisting that he is the one for Bella!? I see him as a "home wrecker" that... DOG!
-- Bella in love with Jacob
I agree with Harlot and Mailyn, this doesn't make sense. Bella has a great relationship with Edward and he is "the love of Bella's life" so Bella falling in love with Jacob is just Stephenie's way of prolonging the inevitable. I really hate that she did it like that. I'm angry at Edward for not ripping out Jacob's throat.
-- Bella kissing Jacob back
OMG. OMG. I couldn't believe she did that! I was so sure she would push him away but instead she kissed him back!
-- Edward's bed
I have to admit I couldn't help giggling when I read the part about Edward's bed. I thought "finally!" But then, I didn't really expect them to have sex... I like that there is no sex in this series and those near-sex scenes... I just don't know what to think of them yet.
Bella's blood is too tempting for Edward but now that he is over that (very convenient I have to say, just like a wink and it's gone) I suppose they can now do it... :S
-- I think I hate Bella
I still love her but I don't know....what she did....I find it hard to forget that she kissed Jacob back. And that she is supposed to be "in love with Jacob". She knows Edward would love her no matter what, will take her back whatever she does. Sometimes I think Edward needs a new heroine but...ugh ugh ugh
Despite it all, I still love Stephenie. I love the way she writes. I really hope the next book would be much better than this.
8/09/2007 07:19:00 PM
"Quil and his two-year-old are way to icky for me. Yikes."
Mailyn, my sentiments exactly. I think Jacob has to imprint with someone soon. Maybe Lea? Actually I don't care even if it's to a 1 year old as long as he'll leave Bella and Edward alone.
I thought the epilogue says a lot. Jacob and Lea....and perhaps the next book will be narrated by Jacob.
8/09/2007 07:24:00 PM
Actually I don't care even if it's to a 1 year old as long as he'll leave Bella and Edward alone.
LOL!!!! That'd be even creepier.
I have to say something so Jacob-lovers out there don't have a coronary. I am NOT against Jacob on this because I am a "Edward shipper" or anything of the sort.
I AM NOT an Edward lover per say. I love the character but hey, I loved Jacob as well. I hate the way the relationships are headed.
Meaning if the books were about Bella and her werewolf boyfriend then I'd have NO problems with Jacob and I'd be mad at Edward for getting in between them.
I don't know WHY this book has become an Edward vs Jacob thing but it's NOT that way for me. AT ALL.
I hate the fact that ANYONE would try and get between two people that are already IN a relationship [and no, it's not because I have some real-life issues with this lol]
I just think it's unfair for anyone to do this especially when they claim to be close friends of one of the people involved.
I started talking about this over at the Lexicon but it's a lost cause.
People are hating Bella because they think she is a whore. I don't think she is a whore. I hate her because she is and HAS been an idiot since Twilight. The term TSTL was created for her. I'm sure of that now. LOL.
People are also hating Jacob for what he did but it's clearly [at least for most] that they hate him because they love Edward. There is also no reasoning with those folks.
I think I should stay out of the Lexicon all together.
Rabid fanpeople. Where's that crowbar when you need it?
8/09/2007 07:35:00 PM
Hahaha I prefer Jacob imprinting with a 1 year old than with Bella :-P
"I hate the fact that ANYONE would try and get between two people that are already IN a relationship. I just think it's unfair for anyone to do this especially when they claim to be close friends of one of the people involved."
I agree. I really want to punch Jacob. He was such a jerk. And the way he talks to Edward! Maybe I'm biased because I love Edward, I do have a crush on him...this is embarrassing....but I mean at least Edward is civil and tries, for Bella's sake, to be nice to Jacob but Jacob - he's impossible! If Bella is immature, Jacob is a toddler!
Actually, I'm a little peeved with Edward too. He says he won't give up Bella. At first, he's over protective and has even maneuvered some very devious way to keep Bella away from Jacob but in the end, he says he's ready to give way for Jacob? I don't get it! And to top it all up, Jacob has done the same thing!
Lol about the Lexicon. I don't think I have the guts to bad mouth Bella or Jacob there. I've seen how members there could go to extremes to defend Bella, especially Edward :-P
8/09/2007 07:51:00 PM
Ok ok I cheated! I couldn't help it! >.< I don't even OWN the book yet and it kills me. Though, judging from the comments maybe that's a good thing? But I will probably buy it anyway just so I can gripe for my 2 cents. :P
It kinda makes sense what with the title being "Eclipse". But, it makes me wonder wat the fourth book is gonna be called. All the drama going on now I wouldn't be surprised if SM called it "Apocalypse" or something :P
8/09/2007 08:38:00 PM
"Bella is a Whore" , LMAO. I would hardly say she's a whore, but that really made me laugh. But she is TSTL.
So, I only hate Jacob because of his selfish actions. No one that is truly a friend would torment their best friend the way he does to Bella in this book. He is constantly telling her how much she loves him even though he knows it hurts her. Selfish. And who the fuck forces that kind of kiss on their "friend"? And what father would laugh that off?
Okay, so I was angriest about Jacob....... But Bella? OMG. Seriously honey, grow up. She was just as selfish for spending so much time with Jacob knowing that she didn't feel the same way about him as he felt about her. I kept thinking that Jacob would imprint with someone else; but by the end, I realized that Jacob and Bella would have imprinted.
I was just so mad at her for being so stupid about everything. She cried and kept trying to manipulate Edward into doing what she wanted. Why was marrying him such a big deal? When the man you feel like that about gives you his mother's ring! Arg! Besides, marriage is a drop in the bucket when you are supposedly wanting to leave your life behind entirely and BECOME A VAMPIRE!! Hello? hasn't she thought about all the consequences of that little action? How can she bat an eye at marriage? Bella was much more mature in the first book. I think it feels very contrived that she is now so immature. It makes me sad that now Bella and Edward have been reduced to this whole mess.
And I hated when she kissed Jacob back. He threatened to kill himself if she didn't kiss him? and so she did? Then after she found out he was bluffing, she still spoke to him? Unbelievable.
And I wanted Edward to stop putting up with Bella's crap. He should have told her that she couldn't make everyone happy in this situation.
I think this book is just setting up the next one that will have Bella and Jacob ending up together. Jacob is the natural course her life would have taken if she had never met Edward and I bet the books will end with her life back on it's natural course. Which is fine, I suppose. Maybe they deserve each other.
8/09/2007 08:41:00 PM
Oh. No. Duvy....I have to admit, I have issues with Eclipse but if you like Twilight and New Moon and love this series, I think you should still read Eclipse :-)
Karamia,
"And what father would laugh that off?"
Oh my gosh I know! Sometimes Charlie makes me laugh but then he will do something like this I want to hit him too.
"I think this book is just setting up the next one that will have Bella and Jacob ending up together."
Nooooooooooooooo! That cannot be! I don't know why Stephenie made the story like this but Bella cannot end up with Jacob. That would be like killing Harry Potter in the end because he isn't really the "chosen one" but Neville!
8/09/2007 08:56:00 PM
OMG! So, while obssessively looking for things to fill 60 gigs of empty space on my ipod, I desperately turned to the pocast section.
SOMEONE HAS A CULLENCAST!
All about B and E!!! Looks like their first one was on 5/4/07 and number 4 just released on 8/1! I'm soooo checking this out! And it's freeee!
8/09/2007 09:02:00 PM
Lily Moon I think I like your idea of Jacob and the one-year-old. And I'm not being perverted! LOL. Anything to get him out of the way AND give him a happy ending.
I also had issues with Edward and how complacent he was about everything. He stood up to Bella for all of 5 minutes and then, all of a sudden, everything she did was fine. Even kissing another man.
Uh-huh.
Duvy you possitively killed me with that comment. I spit grapefruit juice on my computer screen. LOL.
karamia that's what worries me exactly, that Bella will end up with Jacob. That would seriously kill Twilight and New Moon for me. More so than Eclipse already did.
P.S. I agreed with everything you said.
Oh and the Lexicon is scary. If Bella is a whore then I'm the demon from hell. LOL.
8/09/2007 09:06:00 PM
Duvy,
So I was mostly venting about the stuff I didn't like about the book. I was still hooked all the way through and barely put it down. Is is possible to love and hate a book at once? Maybe that's a compliment to SM?
Arggg! I so hope that my prediction doesn't happen. I am almost sorry I said it.
Lily,
that is so true about Bella and Jacob ending up together being like killing Harry Potter.
And Mailyn- I am a sister demon from hell if Bella's a whore LOL
8/09/2007 09:15:00 PM
Duvy,
Ohmygosh you're right! I checked it out. Here:
http://bellaandedward.com/cullencast.php
Thank you thank you for that :-D
Oi, where are the BB? Sleeping? What time is it in Spain?
Mailyn,
Lol! Right now Jacob deserves a 1 year old. Again. Hate. Him. punch punch punch
Karamia,
I think we are all sisters of demon from hell. hahaha
Speaking of demon, am I the only one who expected at least one of the Cullens would die? I was thinking of Rosalie...or Esme....
8/09/2007 09:28:00 PM
Sigh. I wanted to like this book so much more than I did. I like Jacob, but he's pretty much the only character I liked (more) out of it.
I just don't know what happened. I don't know where Bella/Jacob came from - Jacob's side of it was at least sort of consistent, but where did Bella's feelings come from? There wasn't even any subtext!
Actually, I think all the subtext happened in that Tent of Slash, between Jacob and Edward... the conversation that Bella oh, so conveniently manages to overhear as she's drifting off to sleep. It wouldn't have surprised me if Edward climbed in the sleeping bag with Jacob at that point.
The ending was very anticlimactic, as well, with how easy the other vampires were to defeat. What? Victoria is soooooo scary, and Edward doesn't even get a scratch on him?? I did like his and Seth's scenes, though. Edward Cullen = dog whisperer extraordinaire.
Imprinting - initially, I was just creeped out about it, but the more I think about it, the more I really hate this idea. Because, to me, it bypasses all the hard stuff about love and skips right to the forever and ever stage. It's too easy, for me, and comes across as short-hand for Twu Wuv, instead of actually *showing* a couple falling in love; we just get told that their bond is unbreakable, blah, blah, blah.
And it's a really convenient way to remove Jacob from the Jacob/Edward/Bella triangle. In which case, why even bother with the whole Bella-being-split-between-two-guys-but-really-we-all-know-who-she's-going-to-choose--hey didn't I see this on Grey's Anatomy already (and I hated it there too)?, other than to create artificial tension?
Edward... I've never really liked him. Eclipse doesn't do much to change my feelings, except to make me feel more irritated with him at the beginning, for being so high-handed, and then wondering when he became a freakin' saint. He's just so Mary Sue-ish to me because it's like everything he does is calculated to make people fall in love with him -- the problem, for me, is feeling manipulated by his behavior. And also, fandom's reaction.
Oh, fandom. Edward messes with Bella's truck and orders her around and everyone swoons, which only serves to make me dislike him more. Jacob kisses Bella over-enthusiastically and in a misguided attempt to make her see that she's in love with him and suddenly he's a rapist? And Bella is a whore? WTF??
I think Edward should ditch Bella and hook up with Jacob. It would solve all their problems. And likely make fandom's head explode. Solving all my problems. :D
8/09/2007 09:52:00 PM
"I think Edward should ditch Bella and hook up with Jacob"
Dance, hahahaha....that was worse than Bella hooking up with Jacob!
Oh yeah, the tent scene. Very convenient that was... and Edward not getting a scratch from his fight with Victoria. But maybe it's because she isn't really scary. Stephenie said that Victoria's talent is escaping - not really about physical strength...but yeah I get your point.
I thought about the imprinting too, a convenient way to remove Jacob from the scene but hey, personally I'm up for it as long as he's not imprinting on Bella :-P
I was thinking, maybe Jacob imprinted on Bella but he didn't tell her. Stephenie kept mentioning all that "soulmate", that Bella and Jacob are soulmates (am I the only one who have a problem with this?) and I think imprinting is like that exactly - soulmates. I hope that's not a hint.
8/09/2007 10:47:00 PM
Dance,
You had me rolling Lol. I agree it was too convenient, the whole tent scene.
And Jacob having to climb into the sleepingbag to keep Bella warm, I saw that coming a few miles away. *rolling eyes*. Sorry, if Edward was half as prepared as he should have been, they would have had gear warm enough for Bella to stay warm. They are, afterall, used to living in the Northwest.
And there were parts that made me cringe at Edward, too. There have been from the beginning, but I almost hate that Bella puts up with it more. You can only take advantage of someone if they let you.
The imprinting didn't sit well with me either. Too easy. And sorry, spending the rest of your life with someone- even if he is your soulmate- is never easy or "like breathing" as Jacob puts it.
8/09/2007 11:10:00 PM
I thought the plot was poorly put together.
And Bella loves Jacob? What? I seriously had a "WTF?!" moment.
Edward was just... too nice. And yeah, like many people mentioned, what the hell was up with "I'm never gonna ever ever go see the werewolf boy" then a quarter way through, "When are you going again? So i can make plans in advance."?
Sigh. Ms. Meyer is a great writer yes, but this one felt like it was too rushed. And the Jacob thing felt like it was just put into the mix without much thought except to cause some more conflicts.
I dunno how I can trust Bella anymore. And IS her love for Edward stronger than for Jacob? Her major sobbing after her goodbye to Jacob told me otherwise. And she did that in Edward's arms? It frustrated me.
New Moon told me that Bella DID deserve Edward, and vice versa. Now after Eclipse, I dont think that Bella really deserves Edward anymore.
I can totally see her grieving for Jacob on her wedding day. And for me to think that isn't a good sign.
8/09/2007 11:43:00 PM
dance let me say on my, and my friend's defense, that we are NOT Edward lovers. LOL. We like the character well enough just like we like plenty other characters. However, if the story [since Twilight] was about Jacob and Bella I'd be on their side and hatin' on Edward for standing in their way.
My point it's that I'm not coming from the "I love Edward and hate Jacob" camp. My thing is the "getting in between two people" deal I can't stand. If it wasn't for that [and the fact that he forced the first kiss on her] I'd have no problem with his puppy love. But friends, even those that are in love with you, aren't trying to break you and your bf up. That's not a friendly thing to do. LOL.
If Jacob would have been Bella's friend and not push the issue then I'd had no problems. OR Meyer should have started the triangle in Twilight thus making sense that Bella could fall in love with two guys. Not after she's already in a relationship.
Still, I don't want Jacob dead. Just to be happy with a nice girl.
Here is my thing, it's been about Bella and Edward since the first book. It's wrong to change that by now.
That's like, for example, Austen deciding that Elizabeth ends up with someone else than Mr. Darcy almost at the end of the book. {NOTE THAT I HATE AUSTEN but I know most people like this couple} or Romeo deciding to be with someone other than Juliet. It wouldn't make sense because they are the protagonists.
Bella I've thought was TSTL since Twilight. Never cared much for the poor girl. She is way too idiotic for my taste and she just gets worse and worse. LOL.
Hmm....Jacob and Edward, now THERE'S some hot stuff. I'd buy a couple copies of that book.
karamia I'm worried about Harlot then. She's like what, goddess of the underworld? Mehehe.
Lily moon crowbar woman! crowbar! Learn from Bella's mistake. LOL.
kiki I kept thinking Steph had a ghost writer on this one because it was waaaaay out there.
8/10/2007 12:23:00 AM
Hi girls,
I knew it!! I knew you couldn’t wait! Ha! : -)
OK, I don’t like Bella and I didn’t like her in first two books either. Her character is very one dimensional, she is human but she doesn’t act like one. It’s like she is just tolerating her life until it ends or something fabulous happens to her! Maybe it’s normal teenage girl behavior (I can’t remember I was like that but hey, I’m not saying I was normal!) but she is more comfortable with monsters than with herself or her parents or other humans. She doesn’t know what she wants. All her ramblings of true love are just her being dramatic in my opinion. She is not mature enough (she is only 18!) I agree with Mailyn, she is an idiot clumsy girl, a drama queen; and I can’t understand why Edward or even Jake is attracted to her. Jake, well as I myself put to much weight on the age difference, I never considered him a serious love interest for Bella (he is younger than her). She’s confused friendship and love, or her hormones got the better of her, that’s my guess! Remember it is YA, it’s supposed to be full of confused teenagers, and heartbreaks, and over-dramatization! As for Edward, ok; I love his character. He is being wasted on Bella. He is mature and he knows human nature well (he is a mind reader, for Christ sake!) and aside from that suicide thing in New Moon, he has acted very mature so far. What I can’t understand is why he loves Bella?
Through out all three books Bella has acted with stupidity, recklessness, and has been pure dumb. I agree with Harlot. She keeps saying Edward is the love of her life and then she turns around and tells Jake she loves him and wants to be with him forever and Edward is her drug! WTF??? And then she goes back to Edward, wipes more LOVE YOU out for him and agrees to marry him at the end? Why should Edward want her back? It’s way to sick and twisted. Jake character is a back-stabbing bastard, no way around it! But he is a hormonal teenaged werewolf; of course he is a jerk! I think the only real character in “Eclipse” is Jacob. At least he is constant at being a jerk and doesn’t go up and down and change personality every chapter!
Did I like Eclipse? Not very much! I think the story has got into a loop and is becoming repetitive and boring. Every one is too passive or too darn stupid or exhausting! Everyone is waiting for princess Bella to make up her mind! Give me a break! I won’t be anxious to read the next book!
8/10/2007 02:28:00 AM
I can't believe you heathens started without me! LOL
Ok, ok be back. Have to have dinner.
8/10/2007 07:28:00 AM
But maybe it's because she isn't really scary.
That might be the case. 'Course then, it makes Bella's actions all the more TSTL.
I was thinking, maybe Jacob imprinted on Bella but he didn't tell her.
I don't think so; I think maybe Jacob wanted to imprint on Bella, but I don't think it works that way. And if he had, the other wolves and Edward would have known about it (with the whole mind reading thing); I can't imagine all of them keeping their mouths shut. LOL.
I dont think that Bella really deserves Edward anymore.
Heh. And I think they "deserve" each other. But then it's never been my opinion that Edward is that great of a catch or "too good" for Bella ;) .
However, if the story [since Twilight] was about Jacob and Bella I'd be on their side and hatin' on Edward for standing in their way.
Oh, I don't dislike Edward because I want Bella and Jacob to be together. I dislike Edward because he comes across as rather "fake" to me, which is all the more evident in Eclipse. I probably liked him best in New Moon. :D
But friends, even those that are in love with you, aren't trying to break you and your bf up. That's not a friendly thing to do.
I completely agree. But it's partly Jacob's ugly side, too, that makes me like him, because he's not shown to be "noble" all the time. And I think there are also some mitigating circumstances -- Edward is a freakin' vampire, for one, and he did break Bella's heart in NM, and well, Jacob is young, brash and stupid with love. :D
I do also like the concept that it's possible to be in love with someone and yet perhaps feel an attraction to someone else -- not that it has to be or should be acted upon, of course -- even if I don't much care for the execution. The whole one-and-only, dead beneath the waist to every other Y-chromosome, "pure love" stuff is just so unrealistic to me.
OR Meyer should have started the triangle in Twilight thus making sense that Bella could fall in love with two guys. Not after she's already in a relationship.
Yeah, some subtext/hints would have made it play out better, I think, so it doesn't seem so out of the blue that Bella returns some of Jacob's feelings.
8/10/2007 09:09:00 AM
Mailyn, Aradia
I don't buy the crap that everyone keeps dishing out about this whole Jacob thing being a way to give Bella choices. When you are HAPPILY involved you don't need choices. You ALREADY made your choice.
I have to agree on this. This Jacob THING, ugh, i don't buy it. It's too forced, too false. How could someone as obsessed as Bella is to Edward be in love with another? Really, HOW?
Aradia said that it's because of age and hormones. (Aradia, what were you doing when you're Bella's age? :P) Does that really mean age factors when one is in love? That young people don't know what love is?
If Bella is young and didn't know what love, that would also question her love for Edward--and i doubt she didn't love him!--and if i begin to question THAT, i have to question everything.
This whole Bella is in love with Jacob thing cheapens Bella and Edward's love. Hate that.
AND she cried hysterically all night about Jacob in Edward's arms?!?!
I KNOW! I wanted to grab Edward and shake him "Wake up, you idiot! Leave her, i'm here!!!"
Lily
LOL. I thought the same thing about Edward's bed. :P It's about time, hee. It will happen after the marriage i think. Before Bella turns into a vampire. Edward says they'll TRY. And besides, i don't remember him saying it's impossible, just that Bella is breakable. Er, ok, i don't want to go into breaking Bella. :S
I don't care even if it's to a 1 year old as long as he'll leave Bella and Edward alone.
Not a bad idea considering Jacob needs some growing up to do. He's as immature as Bella, i tell you!
Duvy
Apocalypse? LOL! If Bella ends up with Jacob, maybe Stephenie should call it that. :/
Karamia
Why was marrying him such a big deal? It makes me sad that now Bella and Edward have been reduced to this whole mess.
God, it REALLY REALLY irritates me, this whole "i don't want to get married" thing. For fuck's sake woman, who the fuck cares what the whole town will say? You don't even like most of those people! And they're not even staying in Forks after the wedding!!! And her reaction to Edward's ring, oh my god.. i wish Edward crammed the whole thing on her clenching unworthy fingers UGH. (Just me, i'm violent.)
8/10/2007 09:17:00 AM
God, it REALLY REALLY irritates me, this whole "i don't want to get married" thing. For fuck's sake woman, who the fuck cares what the whole town will say? You don't even like most of those people! And they're not even staying in Forks after the wedding!!!
Yeah, I didn't understand Bella's reasoning there either. Especially with how unique and special she's supposed to be. And the other thing is, I could see this explanation as a cover up for some deeper hang up, but I don't think that's the case at all.
8/10/2007 09:32:00 AM
Dance
You like everyone gay! You even give hints about Sam and Dean having an incestuous relationship, you perv!
If Edward and Jacob ends up together, well... god, actually i don't know which is worse, that or Jacob and Bella ending up together. :S
Imprinting.
I don't like this idea too. The idea of not having a choice who you should love? HATE THIS. This is worse than the Chinese's old way of forcibly engaging your child to someone. NO ONE should dictate who you should love. Not even fate!
They say finding a soul mate is when fate intervenes for you. Yes, "fate" or "destiny" or whatever might lead you to find someone you'll end up falling in love with, but fate just leads the way; it doesn't DICTATE though who you should love. Imprinting my ass. It's just the convenient way of getting rid of Jacob.
Kiki
I can totally see her grieving for Jacob on her wedding day
Oh god i hope not. I would throw the book and burn it if that happens.
I don't think the book was rushed. I don't think it's a bad read either. It's just the story, the plot, WHAT THE FUCK. Stephenie tried to put everything in it (back stories, pleasing Jacob's lovers) and yet held off some important stuff just to prolong the end. :/
Mailyn
Here is my thing, it's been about Bella and Edward since the first book. It's wrong to change that by now.
I agree. This series can't with Jacob and Bella together. That's just.. wrong. :S
Dance
I think maybe Jacob wanted to imprint on Bella, but I don't think it works that way.
I'm confused about this whole imprinting thing. How does it happen? I mean, that other wolf who imprinted with her classmate, he didn't noticed her until he became a werewolf. I thought this imprinting thing will happen as soon as you become a werewolf. I mean, if Jacob didn't imprint with Bella when he became a werewolf, i don't see it happening ever.
I dislike Edward because he comes across as rather "fake" to me
You just like Jacob, admit it! I don't think Edward is a "fake". Well, in this book he is. :S But not in the previous two books. He is just patient i suppose and i do believe there are wonderful men like him. It's just superimpose because everyone is focusing on his self control and protectiveness on Bella because of all the danger they are facing.
You know, actually, this "Saint Edward" thing in Eclipse doesn't sit well with me. I mean, c'mon! If my BF kiss another girl, i would be MAAAAAD. And if he cries because he can't be with that other woman, that he's also IN love with her, oh for godssake, GET OUT.
8/10/2007 09:43:00 AM
I just wrote a very long rant before I left work and three hours later I find that it wasn't saved. Ugh!
Anyway, this book bothered me so much. I kept wishing Bella would get killed in a motorcycle accident since she loooooved putting herself in danger so much.
I also wished Edward had shoved the ring down her throat -- at least no one would see her wear it.
Is it obvious how much I HATED Bella???? It felt so wrong that she thinks she and Jacob were meant to be together only she doesn't have a choice with Edward? It's like Jacob represents her freedom and Edward is like being in chains???? Helloooo!!! Then she should've just stayed in Forks and let Edward destroy himself. Sheeesh!!!
Book Four had better be good or I'm crossing Meyer off my list.
8/10/2007 09:53:00 AM
This comment has been removed by the author.
8/10/2007 10:49:00 AM
I have a question: has it ever even confirmed definitively that Edward is a virgin? All that talk about Tanya and the other women vampires made me think about this. :P
8/10/2007 10:51:00 AM
OH MY GOD. Finally, we have a thread for ranting.
Bella's attitude about marriage is frustrating. I'm beginning to question if she deserves Edward at all. But then again, Edward too has acted like a nutcase in this book.
I was hoping he would get mad at least once at Bella for making a run for it, TWICE, for Bella not telling him about going to La Push. Hasn't she learned anything (from New Moon)? It's frustrating when someone you love just leaves without you knowing where he has gone to. Yes Alice can see her but she hasn't even considered the danger. I really thought Edward would cross the territory and that would start the war.
And hasn't Bella realized that when she runs off like that when Edward is hunting, the next time Edward won't feed again till he's dying of hunger just to make sure she is safe?
I am hating Jacob. Jacob and Bella, both of them. She kissed him back - I can't get over that fact.
I actually like the intimate part of the book. I like that they are both willing to compromise, or at least talk about it. It makes their relationship more real to me. I agree with Bella about having "intimacy" before she becomes a vampire. I really hope that works out for her and Edward.
I agree how easy the other vampires were defeated. Of course Jacob has to be the one who got hurt and then Bella has to comfort her. Of course.
Jacob and Bella's last conversation is like this big stink bomb.
"How can we be friends, when we love each other like this?"
"He was my soul mate in the world - would have been my soul mate still if his claim had not been overshadowed by something stronger, something so strong that it could not exist in a rational world"
What is this? That Bella and Edward are together because of some mumbo jumbo psychic hocus pocus and she has no choice but to succumb to it?
8/10/2007 10:55:00 AM
Aradia-
"It’s like she is just tolerating her life until it ends or something fabulous happens to her!"
That is it! That statement neatly wraps up why I can't stand Bella! I hate it when girls are characterized as sitting around moping and crying their eyes out over some guy. I understand a few tears, but 6 MONTHS! (in New Moon). Or when they sit around waiting for someone to save them. That is almost as bad as 20 women competing for some stupid guy on TV. I hate it!
And if you want to be techical, Bella's life would not have naturally been with Jacob if she had never met Edward. She'd be dead. Tyler's car would have smashed her to bits. Hmm, maybe that is what, in the end, will somehow allow her to be with Edward? But she has soooo much growing up to do before she's ready for that kind of relationship.
and Harlot-
Aradia said that it's because of age and hormones. (Aradia, what were you doing when you're Bella's age? :P) Does that really mean age factors when one is in love? That young people don't know what love is?
I think young people know what love is; but at least for me, I didn't know how to appreciate it when I was that young. And I think Bella is acting even worse than I did when I was her age. (God help her)
8/10/2007 11:18:00 AM
Menchie
I kept wishing Bella would get killed in a motorcycle accident
LOL You are one violent woman. Speaking of death, do you think SM will kill Jacob? That or kill Edward so the dog and her Bella could be together. :/
Lollie
Edward is a virgin?
I have no idea. I thought about this too. I mean, i dunno if SM has ever confirmed it. Anyone knows?
That Bella and Edward are together because of some mumbo jumbo psychic hocus pocus and she has no choice but to succumb to it?
Yes! Like Bella's love for Edward is because of some incomprehensible, unintelligible, gibberish magic. WTF?
Karamia
Good point. Bella would be dead if not for Edward. Not that that's the reason of their supposed to be "grand love".
About young people, i think they do know what love is. I mean at least i think i did when i was that age. :/ I just thought that Bella "in love" with Jacob shouldn't be blamed to her age. It's all about false conflict. When Jacob imprints with someone, he would immediately forget about Bella, so what's the damn point of making Bella being in love with him too?
And Bella should stop insisting on placing herself in danger. She didn't even want to wear the helmet Edward got for her! How stupid really..
8/10/2007 11:45:00 AM
Especially since Washington state has a helmet law!
I don't think we can blame her age for also being "in love" with jacob, but perhaps it explains some of her stupidity. I AM NOT saying that 18 year olds are stupid! Just that maybe if Bella were older she would see that she was in a no win situation.
If your best friend is in love with you, even if you love them back but are choosing to be with someone you love more, then still hanging out with them is more cruel because it gives them hope that you'll change your mind. I think it is more kind to let them go so they can find someone else to be happy with.
And I think it's disrespectful to Edward to keep a friendship with someone that is trying to come between them.
8/10/2007 12:04:00 PM
Karamia, i agree with what you said. Bella wanting to keep Jacob is cruel and making him hopeful and at the same time disrespectful to Edward.
I think Bella and Jake are both selfish but at least Jake is in love with Bella. :/ I can't even say i won't do the same thing. I mean, were i in Jacob's shoes and Bella is letting me hold her hand, lean my head and body against hers, and she seems to love our walks along the beach--letting all THAT, not stopping it when she KNOWS full well that i'm in love with her, why, i won't stop pursuing her. (Though, i'll at least TRY to be civil to Edward.) (Another Edward complain: tolerating Bella just because that's what she wants! Argh! I'm not impressed!)
8/10/2007 01:22:00 PM
Hi all, you started early! ;-)
No, I didn’t mean young people don’t know how to love or god forbid; they are stupid!
What I meant was before Edward, Bella had never been in love, it was her first. Her love is obsessive not rational. She is fascinated with vampires, with their beauty and power, with their otherness (She can’t communicate and connect with humans!). Do we remember our first love? In 15, it was obsessive and I didn’t even know the guy well! Ha! What she really knows about Edward before she starts to say he is her destiny and all that junk?! Nothing! She wants to be a vampire deep down, be cool, be beautiful, be different than her irresponsible mom and Edward is a mean to that end, that’s all! What I’m saying is, commitment needs maturity. We all agree, Bella is not mature. She is in no position to commit herself for eternity to Edward. It usually takes a few try to get the life-partner, love-of-my-life thing right, admit it girls! All that Romeo and Juliet poetry and big words are (in my opinion) proof that both Bella’s loves are obsessive teen crushes! Considering the fact she is impulsive and irresponsible (despite her best effort, that going to La Push thing is proof) she is making a mess of every thing, pure and simple. She needs some growing up to do (and fast) if she wants to be Edward’s mate, that guy is a hundred and eighteen years old! How he can tolerate her, I wonder!
8/10/2007 01:39:00 PM
He is doing a "good" job of tolerating her, i tell you that. How could Bella grow up when Edward is always ready to give in to her every whim?
You know, this is silly but.. hee, i can't believe Bella actually said no to Edward in the end when he whispered "i need you, i want you now". Oh god..
Well, i suppose i really have no self-control, huh. :S
8/10/2007 02:31:00 PM
Want a good YA vampire romance? Read “Got Fangs?” and “Circus of the Darned” by Katie Maxwell. Now, Fran is what I call proper vampire girlfriend. She can appreciate Ben’s powers and bossiness. She tolerates him and tries to make him see her point of view and her need for independence. And of course she is not a whiny baby, unlike Bella! Loved Fran, Hate Bella!
8/10/2007 03:38:00 PM
I couldn't stand Jacob and the whole thing about Bella in love with him got very frustrating.
I was actually disappointed that there was not much appearance and information about the Volturi. Those vampires from Italy are very interesting, LOL. I agree with Harlot's main post that the conflicts are very weak. If only Stephenie explored the Volturi's background, their history, their fascination with the Cullens, that would have given us a better plot and a more interesting story.
The marriage aversion thing got very, very irritating! I have to agree with Aradia. Now I see Bella as this girl who only wants to be a vampire.
>>She wants to be a vampire deep down, be cool, be beautiful, be different than her irresponsible mom and Edward is a mean to that end, that’s all!
I thought the fire and ice analogy was quite good. But I have to say that it started to feel like a Jekyll and Hyde thing! Am I the only one who got the feeling that the book tells us Jacob is the good guy and Edward is the bad one. WTF. Jacob can give Bella life - she can stay in Forks, go to school, have all that human experiences, have babies etc. On the other hand, Edward - who has to kill her.
I am very disappointed with the book but Bella and Edward's story still draws me in. I want to know more. What will happen and if Edward or Jacob will die. I have a feeling one of them will.
8/10/2007 05:22:00 PM
Aradia, thanks for the recs :-)
Danielle, the thought of a dead Edward is unacceptable! I don't think Stephenie would be so cruel!
I was thinking about the wedding. Emmett officiating the ceremony...hee hee...
8/10/2007 11:12:00 PM
Jacob . . . Black. . . Argg.
I'm not hating on Jacob because I love Edward. That's not it. He has done inexcusable things - INEXCUSABLE! - in Eclipse.
He has been childish throughout the whole book. He has no respect to Bella and that first kiss! My god. It wasn't even so much that he forced himself to her (although that would have been enough), it's how he acted after Bella hit him. He didn't care that she broke her hand, he just laughed without any concern. And Charlie . . . what kind of dad does that???? There are times that I'll think Charlie has finally learned to be a dad but the way he's behaved... I get it that he doesn't like Edward. That's natural. But he is so intent on having his daughter be with another guy that he's willing to overlook her PHYSICAL PAIN in the name of fair play!
The only person concerned for Bella was Edward. As always, his focus was solely on her. Even when he would have been justified in kicking Jacob's furry butt, he didn't, because he knew it would upset Bella. He immediately looked at her hand and proceeded to do what a man who is a TRUE protector would do . . . he took her to see the doctor!!! Of course that was after he delivered some of the sexiest lines in the book "I don't care if a meteor falls from the sky and hits her in the head. . ." Edward Cullen, Eclipse. *sighs dreamily at the thought of all the pent up deadliness seeping through those words*
And I'm sorry, I don't want to hear any of that "but Jacob hasn't lived as long as Edward" mumbo jumbo, because it contradicts everything else you can say in support of him. If the opinion is that he is mature and good enough for Bella as a partner for life although he's only 16, then he must be mature enough in every other aspect. Edward's being older is not a pass for Jacob's stupidity.
I could give you more examples, but I'd just be making myself angry again after I'd already promised myself to look on Jacob's brighter side. I keep seeing pop up in response to the epilogue. . . Yes, I must be heartless, because I felt nothing. Jacob's overall jerkiness effectively blocked my ability to sympathize with him in the end. I don't want him to be unhappy, and I still have hope for him in Book 4. . . I just hope that New Moon Jacob comes back from his run in the forest and not this . . . Eclipse jerk.
8/11/2007 12:49:00 AM
I am trying not to read this post/thread. I still haven't finished the book.
DDid you see Stephenie's interview on Good Morning America? (watch video)
8/11/2007 01:07:00 AM
Lorelei, thanks for the link!
8/11/2007 02:19:00 AM
V, OMG I have the same sentiments! I like Jake in New Moon and I wish he stayed as the "best friend". I agree with Harlot though. In his defense, Bella was letting him to be that way.
8/11/2007 02:26:00 AM
Danielle DB- I have exactly the same feeling you do that SM is setting it up that Jacob is the good guy and Edward is the bad guy. And I think bad is the wrong choice of words, but maybe he's the unnatural choice. I get very crabby at the thought, even though it's only a book. But I still think that Bella is going to end up with Jacob. The series seems too innocent? (I am sort of searching for the right word) to let Bella leave behind her whole life to be with Edward. I hope I am wrong, but i am not convinced that Bella will get to be a vampire.
8/11/2007 11:31:00 AM
I was so disappointed. I don't know if it's because I expected too much from this series or Stephenie screwed up.
Despite the unbending devotion and unconditional love between Bella and Edward in the first two books, I accepted it. But when Bella said on the end of Eclipse that she loves Jacob too and actually see herself happy with him, growing old with him, having babies and all that, I thought "WTF"?
This spoils everything for me. It questions Bella's love for Edward and I know she is not the most mature 18 year old but I bought it in the first 2 books when she said she loves Edward. I would have accepted this IF, from the beginning, she had romantic feelings for Jacob but it all came out of no where (in fact, we've been shown that Bella was only interested in Jacob as a FRIEND and even rejected his advances) and now, are we supposed to believe that?
Bella's declaration of having no choice but to love Edward diminished Edward and Bella's love for me. I don't know how Stephenie would make me believe on their relationship again. I'm sorry but Stephenie made something so good into something very sour.
The back stories were helpful but I think they were out of place.
I don't resent that there is still no sex. I like the fact that Edward is doing his best. However, I thought if Stephenie explored the sexual side of Bella and Edward's relationship, she could have taken the story and the readers even further. I agree with Danielle that Stephenie holding off info about the Volturi didn't help the series but actually halted its progress. (With Bella's declaration of so called love to Jacob it dragged the series backwards!)
I'm not sure what's going to happen in the next book but I don't think I'll be that much interested if it will still be narrated by Bella who I now find unreliable and too immature for my taste. I really hate the direction this series has gone to.
8/11/2007 11:47:00 AM
Karamia, I'm with you on this - Edward is the "unnatural" choice. I think this is why SM included the werewolves, they are after all nature's way of counteracting the vampires.
I think Bella will be a vampire though. This whole series is all about her turning into one. At least that's how I see it. To join the Cullens, to join her life with Edward, to give up everything for true love, even if it's an unnatural love. SM tried to stop that by giving Bella another choice (Jacob). But, if Bella ends up with Jacob, that will RUIN the series because this whole thing, it's supposed to be about Bella and Edward and their "true love".
8/11/2007 12:00:00 PM
Gosh, am I the only one who doesn't hate the book?
Most of you blame Jacob but you forget that he is only acting like a normal boy his age. Bella is the one with the problem here. She is immature and to be honest, scary about her obsession with Edward. She will die if Edward leaves? What, the only way to be truly happy is when you are with someone (even if he turns out to be as controlling as Edward is) and if he leaves you'll DIE? Good model for young girls, that Bella.
I like that Jacob and Edward both appear on a lot of scenes, and that there are a lot of history/stuff about the wolves. I think it's good that Bella has finally considered the consequences if she becomes a vampire. In the previous books, she gave very little thoughts about them.
I don't like the idea of Bella choosing Edward because she has no choice but I think it makes sense. Meaning, ever since Twilight, Bella has had an unhealthy attachment to Edward that she almost lost it when he left. Edward really IS Bella's drug - stupid but consistent and true.
Olly
8/11/2007 05:46:00 PM
Months of silence and 'italian girl' again in this blog ^^
Thank god ... someone else hated the plot of this book as much as me.
I agreed with a lot of you.
Though, I really blame Bella more than Jacob.
And more than anything I blame SM ... how to ruin a relationship.
"Edward really IS Bella's drug - stupid but consistent and true."
Yes ... but in the first book it was something romantic, sort of magical.
If I wanted realism and a human relationship I could have easily found it elsewhere (and portrayed much better).
To me it was just about cheating readers of what they had come to expect from this series.
I really quote this:
"It's being said that she needed to see she had other options besides being a vampire. Well, hello, of course she does! She can choose to be human! There's a choice! You don't have to throw in another love [that I am STILL not buying] just to make it more balanced."
and the fact that I experienced a WTF moment too when she said that she was in love with Jacob TOO.
The cheapest twist plot ever.
Hmm .... I feel better XD Thank you for this discussion.
8/11/2007 11:08:00 PM
Olly,
Bella has had an unhealthy attachment to Edward that she almost lost it when he left. Edward really IS Bella's drug - stupid but consistent and true.
Hmmm, i dunno. I can't think so tired LOL. I've always thought part of Bella's attachment to Edward is her fascination to him being a vampire (i think Aradia mentioned this). But i think that's not the point. Edward and Bella's relationship started as this good thing. We were lead to believe that Bella is with Edward because she looooves him, not because he's her drug or that she has NO choice.
Hey Italian Girl!
Where have you been? Welcome back and i agree, cheapest twist plot ever. *hmph*
8/12/2007 12:15:00 PM
Is the next book going to be narrated by Jacob or are we still going to get Bella?
8/13/2007 06:28:00 AM
Jacob as the narrator:
It would be an interesting change - true - to get more insights about the wolves, when he finally imprints with someone etc... but with the way he's acted in Eclipse, I'm not sure I will like a book narrated by Jacob. Not right now. He needs to grow up first.
A book narrated by Edward, or maybe one of the Cullens... now that's a different matter.
8/13/2007 08:45:00 AM
"cheapest twist plot ever."
'Cheapest plot twist ever' XD Sorry for the error. I was a little enraged and in a hurry when I wrote that.
But then, I've just read somewhere else that, in someone's opinion, this relationship with Jacob made the story more 'interesting' !!! Until now I've discussed the book with two other italian girls who have read it and (without any input from me^^) they too thought that the book's last part ruined the 'magic' of the whole series for them.
I've been studying and reading your blog, among other things^^
8/13/2007 07:48:00 PM
I've been following this thread for days. The most popular opinions are "I hate Jacob" LOL, and "Bella is stupid". (Not a whore though, LOL at that Mailyn)
I don't blame Jacob for pursuing Bella because she lets him. Bella on the other hand, I now question whether eternity with Edward is the best choice for her. I wonder if Edward or any of the Cullens had been like Bella when they were her age: immature, indecisive, acts stupidly...
No one has mentioned Alice. For some reason she irritated me in Eclipse.
I know Carli was supposed to be the head of their family but in Eclipse, it seemed to me that Edward was their leader.
I too didn't like the part about Bella in love with Jacob. As Italian girl said, it ruined the "magic" of the series.
8/13/2007 09:21:00 PM
I meant Carlisle. geesh.
8/13/2007 09:22:00 PM
Long time lurker first time poster!!
Ok so here is my humble opinion on Eclispe, I think this is a case of the author becoming too enamored of a character and shoving him down the readers throats in hopes that we would love him too.....thus the love triangle was born! What I think Stephenie did wrong was the way in which she did this, it was too sudden, to out of the blue and the central love story told in Twilight was done way too beatifully for us as readers to not feel manipulated by this turn of events. If there had been some foreshadowing, some hints about how Bella may be feeling things for Jacob I could buy it, but up until that kiss she was thinking of him as a brother then wham suddenly she is in love with him, WTF!!
If Stephenie was trying to use Jacob as a symbol of the humanity Bella was going to give up, she could have easily had Bella see she could have fallen in love w/Jacob, she could have had a life w/him in not for Edward not she was in love w/him, he was her soulmate too but she loved Edward more and had no choice cause he was her drug! Even atthe end Bella seemed just resigned w/her choice rather then happy and the line at the end "Conceivebly", wtf does that mean!!
And do not even get me started on the epilouge, if it was supposed to endear Jacob to us more it didn't just eneded the book on a even more sour note for me!
At this point I think Edward should find himself a nice vampire girl and leave Bella human so she can seek some help for all her annoying self doubt!
StephG
8/14/2007 02:19:00 PM
StephG, I totally agree with what you said. There are many ways in which Stephenie could show Bella what are the consequences of being a vampire, of forfeiting her humanity.
Glad you jump in on our discussion. Hope you join us often! :D
8/15/2007 07:42:00 AM
Italian Girl,
Oh LOL. You're right. And i agreed! Gah, for shame. Cheapest plot twist ever. :P
8/15/2007 07:43:00 AM
I was on the Lexicon and saw this:
USA Today is reporting that Eclipse in it’s 10th day of release has knocked Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows off of its number one spot on the USA Today list.
- here -
8/16/2007 06:43:00 PM
I read about it too. I love Stephenie but frankly I don't think Eclipse deserves to eclipse Harry. It's my least favorite book in the series!
8/16/2007 10:30:00 PM
I jsut finished the book this morning and I havent read everyones post becuase I need to vent =/
Ok I'm sorry but I LOVE Jacob. Maybe its because he's 6'7 and really sexy but I dont know. I think he's sweet despite his overbearing attitude and stuff.
I think it was stupid for Bella to be in love with Jacob and Edward at the same time. She shouldve jsut stuck with Edward. I hated the fact that Edward was so understanding. The girl that he loves more than his own life is in love with another guy and he doesnt even get angry at her! That was frustrating.
I think the fact that Edward didnt feel the same about Bella's blood kinda killed some of the romance for me. It wasnt as intense as before.
I love Edward and everything but he seemed like such a wimp! He would jsut step back from a fight jsut because Bella would say please. I dont care how much he loves her, stand up to her! He was almost complacent.
Im not saying that Edward isnt great he just wasnt the same.. I dont know.. I cant remember half the things that were in the book and thats not a good thing since I only finished it this morning...
8/17/2007 08:55:00 PM
Gabrielle, I like Jacob too, but I think he needs some growing up to do.
Bella should never have fallen in love with Jacob. Not that I buy it that she is indeed in love with Jacob.
I don't think Edward is a wimp. He's very... calm... in a most irritating manner. He is very mature and very together compare to Jacob who almost acts without thinking. But yea... as Harlot says, he needs to stop tolerating Bella's bad behaviour.
You know what, I can't remember half of the things in Eclipse either. I remember all the bad parts though, vividly.
Olly
8/17/2007 10:41:00 PM
Jacob is sooo hot, though. (no pun intended) I mean Edward is sexy, and if you had to be turned into "swiss cheese" (like Bella says in New moon after Jacob stiffs her the first time after she discovers the cult secret) I would want to be made into swiss sheese by Edward's rock hard... but when Bella and Jacob FINALLY kiss, it is hot. And so is he - huge sexy man. I see her conundrum. It's tough out there with those mythical creatures...
11/06/2007 10:09:00 PM
Hi Nicole. :) I don't know but i'm still mad at Jacob. (Of course i'm madder at Bella! Edward, we'll i can't stay mad at him. :P) Thing is, Stephenie could have done better with Eclipse. Instead, she wanted to please everyone: "Team Jacob" and "Team Edward" and "Team Bella" (is there one?). The story is about Bella loving Edward; she didn't have to fall in love with Jacob too..
Oh, btw, have you seen this? We also have tons of Twilight related posts here. ;) Welcome, and i hope you join us often!
11/07/2007 02:55:00 AM
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